ESPN MLB Conversation

PositivePessimist

Great stuff! I actually think Kennedy's precursor was Mussina. And he was an ace in a different era. I think being in the NL has helped Kennedy immensely. Can you imagine Mussina's career had he pitched in the NL?
329 Days ago

TCLasVegas

The complete game has been replaced by the save. Averaging 12 CG's a year is gone has resulting in 12 save opportunities a year more per starter. Usually to one player. Nolan Ryan had 19 CG's AFTER he turned 40 in the 90's. Verlander for example has 17 CAREER CG's. Ryan got stronger as a game went on. The Verlanders of today are coming out at the 100 pitch count...and giving a save where there used to be no opportunity...I don't think pitching is better ~ I think it's diluted...
343 Days ago

PositivePessimist

Good point Mr. Brownn. Verlander is a total, total throwback. In fact there are a few of them out there now. Sabbathia. Lee. Halladay.
329 Days ago

mrbrownn

You're right but Verlander is a bad example. He has thrown over 100 pitches every start this year. He's been 120+ three times already.
340 Days ago

PastorSwish

Makes me wonder what a guy like Greg Maddux could do in the information age of baseball. Pinpoint control, intelligent, great stuff - add the knowledge mentioned above in the Ian Kennedy section, and Maddux is even better, and he was one of the greatest pitchers in the era as it was.
343 Days ago

BabeGehrig1927

the strike zone is wider than it was 10 or 15yrs ago, but smaller than the 1960s. I think baseball is finally leveling out after all that jumbo offense of 10-15yrs ago. It was out of control. Luis Gonzalez 57 homers? JOKE. But I do agree that the actual pitching is not much better. In 2000, their BEST were better than OUR best right now, but after guys like Pedro, Schilling, Randy, etc, it was a steep drop. Todays pitchers are more well rounded, and Ian Kennedy mentioned above is a good example. And I also agree all this free swinging and lack of plate discipline will continue to tip the balance in favor of the pitcher. there are more Robby Canos than Miggy Cabreras or Joey Vottos.
343 Days ago

joxtrap23

Again, Jayson, I think you're in a post hoc ergo propter hoc situation at best, and at worst this is MLB propaganda. The umpires, Jayson. Look at the umpires. Wider zones = better pitching numbers. The batters: without PEDs and greenies, they're still trying to hit 5 run homers. They strike out a ton. How about contact numbers? Looking for one cause is looking for the wrong thing. Several factors are at play.
343 Days ago

ubnocksious

You're saying that strike zones are wider now than they've been in the past? I don't agree with that at all... I agree with the overall idea here, though, that it's a handful of issues that converge to create this era where pitching is dominating.
343 Days ago

zmoose27

Really? Mike Mussina an ace? I think he was a tremendous pitcher, but never a true number one starter (think 2004 when he was the ace of the Yankees staff).
343 Days ago

PositivePessimist

Look at his stats again Zmoose! 2001 he was the ace for the Yankees. He led them in ERA and strikeouts (good for second in the AL) even though Clemens won the Cy Young. Really really bad run support. And he was their ace in 2003. And 2006 (not Wang, who had hardly any strikeouts and a much higher ERA). And 2008. And the whole time he was at Baltimore. So yeah, if you look at the whole package, he's an ace.
329 Days ago

ancova1

I admit it didn't feel like he was a Hall of Famer necessarily when he played, to me anyway, but he's 20th all-time in WAR for pitchers. Just about everyone within shouting distance of his rank is in the Hall or soon will be. My guess is he doesn't get voted in right away but his path is easier than was Blyleven's.
343 Days ago